yabba-dabba... Do you really know there was anything accessible through a DNS by connecting to a TCP/IP service and querying
for a regular URL that would get translated to a specific IP and
give back a renderable object to whatever you were connecting
The internet was a whole different beast back then. You're confusing Internet with WWW. Early adopters had things like, Mail and FTP of course, but you also had IRC, MUDS (multi-user dungeon), UUSENET and possibly something like gopher. All of these things used DNS... and
all were pretty much text based. It wasn't until WWW popped up in the main conciousness that anything pretty and "renderable" came along. And that just creaked along at dialup speeds for some time.
That was about the time I had my first DSL line and used a Linux box as
a firewall, mail host, web server and samba host. NATed the LAN, ran a
BBS and a couple of servers behind it. It all felt very cutting edge to me, but it was pretty tame by comparison.
As I said earlier, I found the web pretty unimpressive when I first saw it; most of the content was boring. I vividly remember one web site, linked from the "main" server at CERN, that was some guy's collection of pictures of beer coasters from random bars. It rendered slowly on Mosaic on an RS/6000 machine. *shrug*
People were very confused when I told them that I had neither a PC (at least, not one running Windows or DOS) nor a Mac at home. When I told them I had a VAX, they just looked at me like I was crazy.
Long story short, the Internet didn't "start" in 1995, it
certainly had nothing to do with "taking over" from CompuServe.
If you believe otherwise, the onus is really on you to provide
evidence, since it's a pretty extraordinary claim.
The internet was a whole different beast back then. You're confusing Internet with WWW.I wouldn't say I'm 'exactly' confusing it, it's just that when I think of the internet, I mean the more social 'informatica' side of it, the *www side of it you're referring to.
People still seem to be very confused as to what the Internet
actually is; it's just the collection of publicly inter-connected
TCP/IP networks. _Applications_ of the Internet, like the
web, etc, are all different.
Long story short, the Internet didn't "start" in 1995, it
certainly had nothing to do with "taking over" from CompuServe.
If you believe otherwise, the onus is really on you to provide evidence, since it's a pretty extraordinary claim.
What I meant by 'the internet started in 1995' is that the common public adoption of *www as a means of communication and service consumption
took off around 1995 and not 1993.
People still seem to be very confused as to what the Internet actually is; it's just the collection of publicly inter-connected TCP/IP networks. _Applications_ of the Internet, like the
web, etc, are all different.
It's more than 'just the collection of publicly inter-connected
networks'. It's a cultural, social, communicational and commercial
event, that changed humanity for good and *that* didn't start at 1993,
but rather some time later, around 1995, I'd say. I do remember that
too, because I lived *that*. Malvinas.
As I said earlier, I found the web pretty unimpressive when I first s it; most of the content was boring. I vividly remember one web site, linked from the "main" server at CERN, that was some guy's collection pictures of beer coasters from random bars. It rendered slowly on Mo on an RS/6000 machine. *shrug*
I think the thing with the web wasn't necessarily the content, but the ability to share things fairly easily. If someone wanted to share
photos or some information, they could put up a web page and share a
link - and they could edit their web page to include links to other
pages that you could just click on.
We had that before the web; people ran public anonymous FTP
servers running at many, if not most, sites well before the
web was a thing. It was common to create directories for
users so that they could drop things into that part of the
filesystem exposed to anon FTP; lots of stuff got shared that
way.
Ah, IRC: as a friend of mine put it, "The CB radio of the Internet."
Commercial ISPs existed well before 1993. Look up UUNET, for
instance.
Perhaps in your personal experience you started hearing about it
in 1995, but that doesn't mean that's when it started.
Re: Re: computers
By: tenser to Nightfox on Sat Jul 20 2024 06:24:46
We had that before the web; people ran public anonymous FTP
servers running at many, if not most, sites well before the
web was a thing. It was common to create directories for
users so that they could drop things into that part of the
filesystem exposed to anon FTP; lots of stuff got shared that
way.
Is ftp not still commonly used this way? I have found a lot of stuff recently and am damn grateful we still have it around. All the http
stuff is bloated and inefficient nowadays. Efficiency=elegance?
O'Reilly, purely for sentimental reasons now. My PERL days are long
gone.
What I meant by 'the internet started in 1995' is that the common public adoption of *www as a means of communication and service consumption took off around 1995 and not 1993. The technology and infrastructure
I wouldn't say I'm 'exactly' confusing it, it's just that when I think of the internet, I mean the more social 'informatica' side of it, the *www side of it you're referring to. I know the difference between the
Ah, IRC: as a friend of mine put it, "The CB radio of the Internet."
I've never heard that one before but it seems like a great analogy. I loved both back in the day and I don't care what that makes me!
Yeah, I'm not sure how this is even a debate. Demon Internet in the UK started in 1992. It had "Internet" in its name because that was a known thing even then. Demon was basically started to provide *affordable* Internet access, so they definitely weren't the first to market.
tenser wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
People were very confused when I told them that I had neither
a PC (at least, not one running Windows or DOS) nor a Mac at
home. When I told them I had a VAX, they just looked at me
like I was crazy.
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
PERL, we don't need not stinking PEARL... just use bash scripts :)
Nightfox wrote to tenser <=-
My dad had a DOS/Windows PC in the late 80s, but I also remember him having a couple of Alpha Micro AM1000 computers in another room. I
still don't know exactly what he used them for. Maybe I could ask
him..
tenser wrote to Nightfox <=-
We had that before the web; people ran public anonymous FTP
servers running at many, if not most, sites well before the
web was a thing. It was common to create directories for
users so that they could drop things into that part of the
filesystem exposed to anon FTP; lots of stuff got shared that
way.
Spaceboy wrote to tenser <=-
Is ftp not still commonly used this way? I have found a lot of stuff recently and am damn grateful we still have it around. All the http
stuff is bloated and inefficient nowadays. Efficiency=elegance?
Spectre wrote to Malvinas <=-
What I meant by 'the internet started in 1995' is that the common public adoption of *www as a means of communication and service consumption took off around 1995 and not 1993. The technology and infrastructure
Yeah nah, you're too late in your estimated time of arrival... well
before 95 we had plenty of websites and user pages kicking around.
Spectre wrote to Bob Worm <=-
I have to concur.. the only thing that arrived in 95 was win95 with its TCP stack on board. But even web browsing was a thing in Win 3.11, bit trickier to work with.. but as capable as any platform of the time..
The Computer History museum has an IBM 1401 mainframe computer. The guts
of it were donated by a guy who retired from a pool maintenance company
in southern California.
He'd been using it to run his pool business from his garage since the
mid 70s.
tenser wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
People were very confused when I told them that I had neither
a PC (at least, not one running Windows or DOS) nor a Mac at
home. When I told them I had a VAX, they just looked at me
like I was crazy.
I wish I was there when you got the phone call "Hello, this is Neil from Microsoft Support, we were informed you have a virus on your
computer..."
tenser wrote to Nightfox <=-
We had that before the web; people ran public anonymous FTP
servers running at many, if not most, sites well before the
web was a thing. It was common to create directories for
users so that they could drop things into that part of the
filesystem exposed to anon FTP; lots of stuff got shared that
way.
Some of them were even intentional! I remember inheriting an FTP site
when I came into a company that was used for customer file transfer with user/pass.
SLIP was still a common option here into the early 90s... until WinSock and whatever PPP implementation arrived, I'm a bit hazy on that timing
though.
SLIP was usually easier to get working for the dialup crowd. SLIP didn't last to long once things got going though.
Commercial ISPs existed well before 1993. Look up UUNET, forI will do that
instance.
Perhaps in your personal experience you started hearing about it
in 1995, but that doesn't mean that's when it started.
Yeah, I'm not sure how this is even a debate. Demon Internet in the U started in 1992. It had "Internet" in its name because that was a kno thing even then. Demon was basically started to provide *affordable* Internet access, so they definitely weren't the first to market.
I have to concur.. the only thing that arrived in 95 was win95 with its TCP stack on board. But even web browsing was a thing in Win 3.11, bit trickier to work with.. but as capable as any platform of the time..
Spec
BY: Spectre (21:3/101)
|11S|09> |10Here a lot of BBS became early dialup ISPs. I believe 90% |11S|09> of dialup BBS|07
|11S|09> |10were|07
|11S|09> |10gone by late 93, I forget a little, but it was every user just|07
|11S|09> |10disappeared|07
|11S|09> |10overnight. One month there were users, next month, not a one.|07
Yes, people got bored of the bbs'es and even if you bribed them with
money they did not want to touch them with a ten foot pole in 1996/1997.
This here is really interesting. I remember before 1995 (before Win95), taht BBSs were a common thing, and there was a sort "collective concious" of using BBSs to connect with others, I remember news paper articles about FIDOnet and how that could get you in touch with anyone anywhere in the world, but it wasn't until 1995 (and Win95, indeed...) with IExplroer preinstalled, and the browser war it ensued that *web browsing* (!!) really became something most people became aware of.
Perhaps in your personal experience you started hearing about it
in 1995, but that doesn't mean that's when it started.
From the beginning of this series of messages I had a feeling that
there was something 'regional' related to the different perceptions
and ideas that we all shared.
..when most people became aware of FIDONet? I'm not so sure. It seemed that there were a lot of people who bought their first computer in the mid-90s and were getting on the internet and didn't really have a knowlege of BBSes.
Re: Re: computers By: Malvinas to Spectre on Sat Jul 20 2024
11:30 pm
This here is really interesting. I remember before 1995 (before Win95), taht BBSs were a common thing, and there was a sort "collective concious" of using BBSs to connect with others, I
remember news paper articles about FIDOnet and how that could
get you in touch with anyone anywhere in the world, but it
wasn't until 1995 (and Win95, indeed...) with IExplroer
preinstalled, and the browser war it ensued that *web browsing*
(!!) really became something most people became aware of.
..when most people became aware of FIDONet? I'm not so sure. It
seemed that there were a lot of people who bought their first
computer in the mid-90s and were getting on the internet and didn't
really have a knowlege of BBSes.
And I think Internet Explorer was included as an optional install in
a Windows 95 add-on, and it came pre-installed in Windows 98. That
was around the time of the Microsoft anti-trust trial, and Microsoft
tried to say Internet Explorer was integrated into the OS and they
couldn't remove it..
Nightfox --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
Spectre wrote to Nightfox <=-
By the time you hit mid 90s anyone buying a modem has no interest in a
BBS they're being sold internet access. That's become the primary
reason for purchase.
By the time you hit mid 90s anyone buying a modem has no interest in a
BBS they're being sold internet access. That's become the primary reason
for purchase.
I miss the endless busy signals of the '90s. Wait, I don't. Being able to connect to the internet (mostly) without busy signals was a big part of the allure for some people.
I recall setting a handful of BBSes on repeat dial and waiting until one of them answered. Usually, the less popular one would connect you and you'd end up reading messages on a stock Spitfire board instead of the one you *really* wanted to call.
I miss the endless busy signals of the '90s. Wait, I don't. Being able
And I think Internet Explorer was included as an optional install in a Windows 95 add-on, and it came pre-installed in Windows 98. That was around the time of the Microsoft anti-trust trial, and Microsoft tried
to say Internet Explorer was integrated into the OS and they couldn't remove it..
Bear in mind also that commercial sale of DNS domains
started in 1992 (Network Solutions taking over from NSF).
I still have that Whole Internet book! I think its funny that once upon a time, all of the internet could fit in one book.
I'm re-watching Halt and Catch Fire season 4 now - they captured that early web period well. I think back to that time, I lived in San Francisco
I should probably watch that show.. I watched the first episode (or part of it) and for some reason didn't continue watching the show.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I'm re-watching Halt and Catch Fire season 4 now - they captured that early web period well. I think back to that time, I lived in San Francisco
I should probably watch that show.. I watched the first episode (or
part of it) and for some reason didn't continue watching the show.
I'm re-watching Halt and Catch Fire season 4 now - they captured that early web period well. I think back to that time, I lived in San
Here a lot of BBS became early dialup ISPs. I believe 90% of dialup BBS were gone by late 93, I forget a little, but it was every user just disappeared overnight. One month there were users, next month, not a
IIRC, 'the internet', as such actually started out in 1995, replacing Compuserve.
I wouldn't know as I got my PC connected with a modem around 1997, when the inernet already was a thing but there wasn't much to do there
either, there was a lot more activity in BBS systems.
Netscape Navigator came out in 1994,
You guys call it NutScrape too?
I was in my last year of high school in 1993. The boards in my area were still going strong. about a year later I became a FidoNet Hub and the BBS ran for a good 10 years (dialup, then web based around 2001) longer before life made me shut down. By 2003 things where really slowing down on the Dialup scene but when we transitioned to a web board it kept going for a while.
Bah.. the Internet was a 30 year old overnight success by the time 95 rolled around. The marker for 95 was simply Windows 95, which was built to be online at the time. 3.1 would do it of course with WinSock but it was a pita and unreliable. 95 was the shit.. the world changed that day.
You guys call it NutScrape too?
No.. usually it was "F*&#$ng Netscape".. often times after it locked up or crashed.. usually just about the time before you got to see boob on the photo you where downloading in the browser window..
No.. usually it was "F*&#$ng Netscape".. often times after it locked up
I was in my last year of high school in 1993. The boards in my area were still going strong. about a year later I became a FidoNet Hub and the BBS
ways, and having to flip between Nutscrape and Internet Exploiter as they
I was in my last year of high school in 1993. The boards in my area were
still going strong. about a year later I became a FidoNet Hub and the BBS
Interesting. Where in the world are you? By 93 there wasn't another BBS around to even get Fido from...
Halt and Catch Fire - where are you streaming these seasons from? I am interested in re-watching it, but am hesitant to sign up for another darn streaming service.
Interesting. Where in the world are you? By 93 there wasn't another BBS around to even get Fido from...
I started using the internet in 1995 with Windows 3.1 and Winsock. I don't think it was a PITA.. It actually seemed fairly easy to set up.
That's odd. In the San Francisco Bay Area there were hundreds of BBSes in the area and a whole echomail distribution system. I was part of that until the late 90s, probably 1998. I got an ISDN line and connection to the internet and started using FTP to get fidonet mail.
I was in my last year of high school in 1993. The boards in my ar still going strong. about a year later I became a FidoNet Hub and
Interesting. Where in the world are you? By 93 there wasn't another BBS around to even get Fido from...
Spec
*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
I didn't leave FidoNet until 1996 or 97... don't remember for sure
because I recently looked at some old nodelists and saw my node listed in a 97 list.
I brought my old Atari 8-bit BBS back on the internet in 1999 and it is still up and running...
I have access to all 4 seasons ;)That is AWESOME! But, where do I get it?
Klunk
Spectre wrote to Bf2K+ <=-
Back in 93-94 I don't think we had enough ways to migrate a BBS to the internet. Most had already left the building by the time they became available.
I do remember seeing RLFOSSIL back then, but having no way to use it
with any of my existing infrastructure.
I started using the internet in 1995 with Windows 3.1 and Winsock. I don't think it was a PITA.. It actually seemed fairly easy to set up. You'd just configure Winsock for your ISP and dial in, and you were online. I did that for a while until in 1996, I got my first job and spent my first couple paychecks on parts for a new PC, which I installed Windows 95 on.
Interesting. Where in the world are you? By 93 there wasn't another BBS around to even get Fido from...
I don't remember having such a problem with Netscape. It always seemed like a good browser.
I don't remember having such a problem with Netscape. It always seemed
like a good browser.
I never found it to be an especially great browser.. it wasn't horrible but it was early days in the world of WWW. I was very happy when FireFox came out.
I have access to all 4 seasons ;)
That is AWESOME! But, where do I get it? --Matt
I don't think there was a terminal program that could do Telnet and
Zmodem back then; that was the one show-stopper I kept going back to. Between QWK and file transfers, Zmodem was a requirement.
their own "special" tags that the others couldn't use or recognize. I think back to the days of IE being the "premier" browser with its ActiveX controls. Many financial institutions developed their sites for that browser and you could only access them with IE.
Mhansel739 wrote to TheNerd <=-
Netscape, or any of the other browsers out at the beginning of the wild west days of the world wide web (WWW), were hit or miss. Web page/site developers had to choose what browser they were developing for.
I should probably watch that show.. I watched the first episode (or
part of it) and for some reason didn't continue watching the show.
If Netscape wasn't a great browser, what browser were you comparing Netscape to? I don't think there were very many web browsers available
at the time, and they were probably about on par with each other.
Firefox didn't come out until 2004..
developers had to choose what browser they were developing for. One browser rendered one way, the other another way. And each of them had their own "special" tags that the others couldn't use or recognize.
I think back to the days of IE being the "premier" browser with its
That is AWESOME! But, where do I get it?
I'm re-watching Halt and Catch Fire season 4 now - they captured that early web period well. I think back to that time, I lived in San Francisco and worked at a software company in San Francisco. San Francisco was cool, and the epicenter of multimedia in tech. San Francisco was cool and the rest of the bay area was uncool. I wonder what would have happened if I'd decided to work outside of San Francisco in the uncool valley and gotten a job at Netscape.Where are you watching it? streaming service? which one.
Re: Re: computers
By: Spectre to TheNerd on Fri Jul 26 2024 03:29 am
Interesting. Where in the world are you? By 93 there wasn't another BBS around to even get Fido from...
That's odd. In the San Francisco Bay Area there were hundreds of BBSes
in the area and a whole echomail distribution system. I was part of that until the late 90s, probably 1998. I got an ISDN line and connection to the internet and started using FTP to get fidonet mail.
OMG yes.. This is why my foray into web design as a profession ended. Constant standard changes or stupid extras that where real cool in IE didn't render right or at all in netscape or firefox.. no thanks. Now I look at code for pages and no thanks.
OMG yes.. This is why my foray into web design as a profession ended. Constant standard changes or stupid extras that where real cool in IE d render right or at all in netscape or firefox.. no thanks. Now I look code for pages and no thanks.
CSS was pretty cool when it hit wide spread adoption tho... IE needed t that up a bit as usual of course.
Mhansel739 wrote to TheNerd <=-
Yes, this is what I was talking about. Browsers rendered things "differently" depending on how the developers "interpreted" the HTML or CSS code. Yes, CSS was a developing standard, but it was still the WWW (wild wild west) on the WWW (world-wide web). My foray into web-dev was similar. I found it silly creating different versions of pages for different browsers, or locking someone into a specific browser to look
at or use a page.
The problem from my perspective was extensions and interpretations of
the HTML standard by Microsoft making IE less compatible. Microsoft
knew that corporate networks would support IE and intentionally erode
competitor's market share. Microsoft in the '90s was ruthless and
should have been broken up.
As much as we love Linux, there are "too many" variations for it to take hold. It does well in the server arena, but not the desktop. And Mac, as good as it is missed the mark.Just recently I saw a conference by Linus Torvalds where he pointed out just that. That MS was succesful because there's only 1 Windows in each cycle, whereas in Linux, each app creator has to release an immense amount of binaries to have their app ready to be used in a myriad of different distros. The Cathedral and the Bazaar, back for blood... Still, Mr. Torvalds pointed out that is yet another huge corporation one that could push this culture and logic into the linux sphere, when Steam would have to standarize binary releases for games compatible with the linux platform
Think about this. Once Microsoft established itself as the OS of choice for IBM and the clones, it already created a foothold. Commodore, Atari, and other platforms just could not compete with the common platform that software was being created for.
--Matt
On this last piece of your post: MS didn't "establish itself"... they d some kind of shady move with IBM to have their OS pre-installed in OEM computers for a good few years, until it was irreversible. I know ameri folks (coming from "the land of opportunity and the free and brave), se these 'corporate moves' as not so much as "shady", but you gotta give t that's not quite "squeaky clean"...No doubt that MS did some shady stuff to get DOS on the IBM. They have
born in the 80's but have been getting back into retro computers again,
i miss the times when this was primary means of comms.
I grew up with dial-up in the 90s and 2000s, but never saw or used a BBS until last year. Using one now has changed my apprecation for using the Internet, and has changed my ideas on how to use it to communicate.
i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D
--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast
... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D
--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast
... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
I have always thought so.same here! this is so much better than fb.
same here! this is so much better than fb.i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D
| Sysop: | smooth0401 |
|---|---|
| Location: | New Providence, NJ |
| Users: | 4 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 63:26:16 |
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